The esports world, particularly the Counter-Strike scene, is no stranger to passionate personalities. One such figure is Duncan “Thorin” Shields, a commentator, analyst, and journalist notorious for his toxic behavior. He has been involved with the game for many years and is somehow knowledgeable, however he hasn’t really contributed to the growth of Counter-Strike. His behavior and comments have increasingly drawn criticism, raising questions about his suitability as a representative of the esports community.
Here’s how Thorin operates:
Unable to secure consistent employment due to his abrasive personality, he spends countless hours immersed in the echo chambers of Reddit and HLTV, fueling his anger and formulating controversial opinions. Armed with this “knowledge,” he takes to YouTube and, when inexplicably invited as talent to CS tournaments, broadcasts his inflammatory views to hundreds of thousands of viewers.
Thorin carefully crafts his stances to maximize outrage and attention, positioning himself as a “CS historian” while many in the community view him as more of a “CS Clown Mascotte.” The irony is that anyone who frequents HLTV or CS subreddit, likely possesses the same, if not greater, knowledge of the game. Even the players, who actually play Counter-Strike, have a deeper understanding than Thorin, who, shockingly, doesn’t even play the game himself.
And this is just the beginning…
Professionalism in Question
Thorin has built a reputation for being outspoken and controversial. While some appreciate his candidness, others find his approach abrasive and unprofessional. He has engaged in public feuds with players, teams, and other community figures, often resorting to personal attacks and inflammatory language. This behavior has led to multiple bans and suspensions from various esports events and platforms.
Racist and Xenophobic Remarks
Perhaps the most serious accusations against Thorin involve his history of racist and xenophobic remarks. He has made insensitive comments about various nationalities and ethnic groups, perpetuating harmful stereotypes and contributing to a toxic environment within the esports community. These instances have sparked outrage and calls for his removal from commentator positions.
The Impact on Esports
Esports, like any sport, thrives on inclusivity and diversity. Players and fans from all over the world come together to compete and celebrate their shared passion for gaming. Thorin’s behavior undermines these values and creates a hostile atmosphere for many. His presence at esports events casts a shadow over the competition and detracts from the positive aspects of the community.
While Thorin’s knowledge and contributions to Counter-Strike cannot be denied, his repeated unprofessional conduct and offensive remarks make him an unsuitable choice for a commentator or analyst at esports events. The esports community deserves better representation, one that reflects the values of inclusivity, respect, and sportsmanship. It’s time for tournament organizers and sponsors to take a stand and prioritize the creation of a welcoming and positive environment for all.
Additional Points to Consider
- The Role of Social Media: Thorin’s online presence, particularly on Twitter, has often been a source of controversy. His tendency to engage in heated arguments and make provocative statements has fueled negativity and division within the community.
- The Need for Accountability: While Thorin has faced some consequences for his actions, many believe that he has not been held fully accountable. A stronger stance from esports organizations and sponsors is necessary to deter such behavior in the future.
- The Importance of Positive Role Models: Esports has the potential to inspire and unite people from all walks of life. It’s crucial to have positive role models who embody the best qualities of the community and promote a healthy and inclusive environment.
Keep in mind that this article is based on publicly available information and personal opinions. It is not intended to be a definitive judgment on Thorin’s character or career.
FACEBOOK APOLOGY: MY POLISH PROBLEMS
Below is the lengthy Facebook post by Thorin, where he attempts to explain his controversial comments about Poland. This post, while extensive, doesn’t change the fact that his remarks were offensive and harmful.
It’s important to acknowledge that Thorin does try to provide context for his statements. He discusses his dislike for travel, his preparation for the event, and his personal experiences with Polish people. He also touches on complex issues like racism and economic disparities in Eastern Europe.
However, his explanations often come across as justifications rather than genuine apologies. He downplays the severity of his comments, attributing them to fatigue, the nature of live broadcasts, and even the provocative behavior of his co-hosts. He also engages in whataboutism, deflecting criticism by pointing out similar issues in other countries.
Ultimately, this Facebook post highlights Thorin’s tendency to double down on his controversial views rather than taking responsibility for their impact. While he claims to understand why people were offended, he stops short of admitting that his comments were inherently wrong. This lack of genuine remorse further contributes to the perception of him as insensitive and unwilling to learn from his mistakes.
It’s important to remember that freedom of speech does not equate to freedom from consequences. Thorin’s removal from EMS One Katowice was a direct result of his offensive remarks, and his subsequent attempts to explain himself did little to mitigate the damage he had already caused.
Post is copied and pasted in original form with a link, in case it gets taken down like his offensive Twitter posts.
https://www.facebook.com/Thooorin/posts/my-polish-problemsnow-that-i-am-no-longer-in-the-employ-of-ongamers-i-am-freed-t/877492295595030/
My Polish problems
Now that I am no longer in the employ of OnGamers, I am freed to discuss topics which I was directly or indirectly prohibited from speaking out while I worked there. Before I address matters such as my personal experiences in dealing with reddit, I think it's important that I address the allegations of racism that have been levelled against my career this year. Not only will they seemingly always be dredged up time and time again, but they are often used as a mechanism to dismiss anything I may to say on other topics of ethics. This is in line with the infamous poisoning the well (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well) logical fallacy.
The first trouble regarding this matter arose around my comments about Poland, as a country, on Episode 43 of Unfiltered, an open-ended esports discussion show (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4wVBu7n6aw...). Though the initial reaction to the comments and the show was quite minor, due to the low viewership and the fact the community surrounding the show was largely made up of hardcore StarCraft2 enthusiasts, it quickly became a significant topic of discussion as more and more people were made aware of it and the links were passed around the internet.
Radio silence maintained, until now
When such a scandal hit, it was not within my remit to decide how I publicly responded to it. Beyond a small apology, I was advised not to say anything further about the matter. From my experience, both direct and indirect, it is the standard approach of large companies to simply let matters die down and the initial furor and anger around a sensational topic die down. Attempts to explain oneself are often unproductive, as the state of hysteria generated in response to the original comments, means many of the audience will not be in the frame of mind or mood to reign back their emotions and consider the matter logically. I can definitely see the rationale behind this thinking, and I agree with it, to an extent.
With that said, one of my problems with being unable to address that topic is that I repeatedly saw my opinions purposely and sometimes unintentionally taken out of content and different intentions assigned to statements I made. In the vacuum of not having context for my motivations or intentions, people either inserted their own assumptions or latched on to the prevailing and most popular suggestions of others. Now that I am in a position to explain my side of the story, I can do so and will.
The primary intention behind writing this piece is to outline the context of my comments and explain the circumstances and reasoning which led to them being the opinions I expressed that day. My experiences with such scandals have shown me that there is a significant element of conspiracy theory thinking and scape-goating involved with the public reaction to them. What I mean by that is that once the individual, who typically has only come to know the individual they are upset with via the internet, is sufficiently set against them, then it becomes almost impossible for them to be convinced otherwise regarding that individual's perspective, motivations and intentions.
That is why the large company approach does make sense, since a naive individual might imagine that by explaining themselves then they will be understood and the public anger will subside. In reality, it is often the case that those most angered by the topic will simply build any further actions into the conspiracy. So if the individual at the centre of the scandal apologises, then it will simply be written off as a fake apology, attempt to trick the public into liking them again or even as a justification of their actions.
Some of those set against the individual are so determined to continue on their course of hatred, I have even jokingly suggested, to illustrate this mechanism of grand conspiracy, that the person who is being hated could move to India and dedicate his life to becoming a monk, serving the poor and focusing only on his inner development, yet this would then be written off as an elaborate act to deceive the public that he had changed and that secretly he was exactly the person they imagined, based on their initial impressions, and that anyone who "bought it" was a naive fool. In short, I do not expect those who hate me to cease doing so. I explain myself because I think, in the interest of intellectual honesty, there may be some who might be interested to know the context of my opinions.
No love of travel
I will go case-by-case on the statements expressed, but I will first of all set the context of the conversation in which they occurred. I am a strange case within esports journalism in that I don't actually enjoy attending esports events. Nor do I actually enjoy travel much, at least in the usual context of wanting to see new sights and visit places of interest. This makes me unusual as one of the main reasons many got involved with esports journalism, back before much money could be made, was to attend events and meet new people. That was essentially the form of payment or reward for doing the job, back then. In my case, I have always overlooked my distaste for travel and attending events so as to be able to produce the kind of coverage I am most interested in, with direct access to players and the possibility, in later years, of video interviews.
The point I am making in stating that is that I do not enjoy going almost anywhere. I don't like visiting Germany, my trips to Hannover for CeBiT have been some of the worst weeks of my life. I have a great distaste for travel to France, as I don't enjoy the foods it is most famous for and its culture does not appeal to me. I have not found much pleasure during my trips to the USA. There are only a handful of countries in the world I have enjoyed visiting and could say were enjoyable trips, such is simply the nature of my character and the person I have become.
I have rarely, if ever, publicly commented on such or complained about it, as I simply accepted it as a compromise one was expected to make if they undertook my line of work. It's only after moving to OnGamers that I had gotten into a position where it was no longer a requirement of my job that I attend specific events, as I was capable of getting the same amount of hits or more while working on projects remotely, that I felt it worthwhile to state my opinions on travel to countries publicly.
Circumstances surrounding my Unfiltered appearance
I was asked, by host Chanman, to appear on Unfiltered only the day beforehand. I think he had had someone cancel on him and so he asked me at short notice, since he knew I was attending IEM Katowice three days later and would be a relevant guest to discuss CS:GO with, since Chris has always been eager to get more discussion of that game on his, now discontinued, show. At the time, I was actually very much occupied with my work, but I have always had a soft spot for helping others in esports, provided I have the means. Mainly because it's an attitude rarely seen, as often those who have risen up feel as if it's then a sign of status to suggest that others make it on their own and undergo similar struggles. Anyway, it seemed like a pretty easy task: turn up and talk for a few hours, giving my opinions on whatever was brought up.
The problem is that my heavy workload, including filming an episode of Summoning Insight in the early hours of that morning, as I have always had to accommodate the Korean time-zones of my co-host MonteCristo, and continuing my research for the Counter-Strike: Global Offensive tournament at IEM Katowice, for which I was to be a studio analyst. I've always been disappointed by analysts or colour commentators who haven't done their homework, so it's always been a key point of emphasis for me when I've been offered the opportunity to undertake such a position. In this particular case, there was added importance in that it was the second major, world championship level, event for CS:GO, so I wanted to see it done right.
In fact, that's the primary reason I had agreed to work with ESL for the event, despite having a more than mild dislike of a number of their more senior employees and having had numerous disagreements in philosophy over the years. Nevertheless, if CS:GO was going to have a second major and make strides towards becoming a premier esports title again, I wanted to play my part and give it the best chance possible, so I put aside old grudges and disagreements. For IEM Katowice, I would estimate I had put in somewhere in the range of 40 hours of time spent researching teams and watching VODs of their play.
The downside of that dual approach, of preparing like a full-time commentator and staying up very late to film an episode of my talk show, on which I had also promised to fully research the Polish LoL team ROCCAT, so that we could break them down, is that I fulfilled my goals as far as research was concerned, but was left with a couple of hours sleep only and a ruined sleep cycle. That's not entirely a problem, I've endured as much many times during my career and I have a great difficult with sleep when it comes to travelling anyway, so I simply took it as a standard pre-event problem that I would have to get through until the event was done and I was back home.
That night, I continued with my IEM research, as there were a couple of teams who were attending from outside the European region and for whom research was particularly tricky. What's troublesome is that I had planned to spend my night finishing up my research, so I had blocked out the whole day to include no work for OnGamers, but there had been technical difficulties with the production of that night's Summoning Insight episode, as it had been filmed but the long render time, due to the show lasting a number of hours, coupled with my producers needing to fly to Poland earlier, due to residing in North America, meant it was going to need them to hit all the check-points of exporting it as soon as possible.
With IEM set to start that week, we needed to get the show out within the next one or two days, so as to maximise the traffic and interest in it. Unfortunately, as it happened, those problems and some miscommunication meant that when I woke up that day, the show was not ready and I was left in a no man's land of not knowing what would happen with it and whether it would be out on time to not be drowned out or out-of-date.
Travel on their part meant there was nobody I could contact and I immediately knew the next time I would have a chance to even check on the status of the show would be when I met the producers en route to the event in Poland, since we shared a final flight together, and by which time we would have missed our window. Having put massive amounts of effort into fitting VOD watching of ROCCAT in alongside my IEM research, I was quite heated about the possibility of the effort being wasted or diminished due to poor execution on the production end. I was still trying to contact people at my site to find out what could be done about the situation when Chanman called, prematurely, as I will address in a few moments.
Whenever I film a talk show, I usually drink an energy drink at the start, as they are very much stream-of-consciousness affairs, where one picks up a topic and runs with it, coming up with their opinions on the spot. I don't know about others, but a downside of drinking energy drinks is that I become quite irritable, which actually tends to help in the environment of talk shows, as it means I am more likely to be active in debate with my fellow guests.
The show begins
I will list time-stamps of each of the sections I discuss, so readers can follow along.
1:21 - 5:56
First of all, I should point out that Chanman, accidentally, had told me the wrong time for the show, being one of those Americans who forgets that the UK is an hour ahead of CET. This meant I was still in finishing up some of my research for IEM, thinking I had another hour ahead of my until the show. Once he explained his mistake, I agreed to come on the show anyway, since it seemed ridiculous to have it continue for an hour without me. You'll notice we actually reference this, indirectly, at the beginning of the show.
It's also worth pointing out that I was not aware the show was actually live on air when I joined the call. For most esports talk shows I have been a part of, it is standard procedure to create the call and then the host sets up the overlays and there is generally anywhere from 10-30 minutes of pre-show talk amongst the guests, as they either meet for the first time or become reacquainted. The way those guests speak during this time, when they assume they are not on air, is very different to how they will speak during the show itself. In this case, Chanman did not tell me he was already streaming live, perhaps he just assumed that since he had messed the hours up that I would know he had already gone live.
As a result, I can be heard making purposely off-colour jokes about Asian people towards him, since I thought we were a group of three people and this is the kind of tone friends will often take with each other in the West, at least in my experience. Once I realise we are live, I adopt my standard persona and method of speaking and we gradually work our way into the show.
Similarly, that's also the reason I made fun of him for letting Totalbiscuit come on later, since it was a trend that despite never being listed in the guests, Totalbiscuit somehow would end up joining the call on the episodes I was a part of, especially if we ever referenced esports commentary. Were the show actually live, I wouldn't have brought up that matter to tease Chanman either, as I'm really a fan of in-jokes and discussing matters on air that only are of relevance to the guests, as that's mildly obnoxious to sit through if you're a viewer. I even referenced the bad mood I was in, due to the extenuating circumstances of appearing on the show, at the end of this section.
5:57-10:22
As Chanman enquires and I answer, I was leaving to travel to Poland the very next morning. In fact I needed to leave my house in less than 5 hours after the show would end, to get to the airport and begin my travel there. I was certainly not looking forward to the prospect of such travel, for three reasons: I knew I wouldn't be getting much sleep, I'd be travelling for most of the day and I was going to Poland. I have already out-lined that I don't particularly like visiting other countries, I don't consider it a perk of my job, in fact quite the opposite.
My previous trip to Poland
In the case of Poland, I had been there back in 2011, to attend a Counter-Strike show-match between SK Gaming, who I was working for as the Editor-in-Chief at the time, and Frag eXecutors, also known as the second line-up of the golden five. My experience back then was that it was just another Eastern European country, with a few shady elements and in general what you might expect: a formerly run-down country trying to get back on its feet and with some developed elements in the central parts of the city, Warsaw in that case.
From my experiences travelling around the world, one cannot go to the centre of the capital city of a country and draw all judgements on the overall country from time spent there. In Asia, in particular, there are cities where the main shopping streets look like you could be in the capital city of any developed Western country, but you need only walk a couple of side streets down to sometimes arrive at appalling poverty and people living practically in squalor. So some of the nicer parts of Warsaw certainly looked like any city in Germany, the United Kingdom or Italy, while others were clearly still closer to the Poland of 20-30 years ago than represented by the central areas.
I was only in Warsaw for a handful of days and I didn't particularly explore the place. Most of my opinions on Poland were formed due to my friendships with Polish players, formed over the last 14 years, and knowing Polish people within my circle of friends for an even longer portion of time. I have never claimed to be any kind of expert on Poland and my experiences in dealing with this particular scandal taught me some interesting things, positive and negative, about the country and its people.
Holding a big esports event in Poland, in the context of esports history
In this part of the show, Chanman starts out by mentioning how big the venue is and how amazing it is, but that he hasn't had a chance to look at it yet. When I mention that is in possible I do simply to make a fairly simple joke that Chanman couldn't look at the venue since he was in North America, not exactly the highest brow humour, but you work with what you have when you have hours to fill on a talk show. It would also lead into my later statements about the fact the event was in Poland, related to the size and scope of it.
This is a side point, but something I will address as we go on is that not only do a I dislike travelling to events, but I have also found a strange phenomenon where other people seem to be having similarly underwhelming travel experiences, yet they come home raving about how incredible the trip was and what a great event it was. I can appreciate that the games themselves can be amazing, and thus make up for the problems with travelling, but I think they sometimes go too far into suggesting as if the home country and the conditions of food and heating etc. are amazing too, giving fans a false impression of the place the event is being held in. I will directly reference this shortly, as part of a different explanation.
When Chanman makes the statements that the event will be packed, I was simultaneously joking and being serious in my responses. On the one hand, I am joking in saying it will be full since it's in Poland, since the obvious perception of the country is still one of it being stuck in the 1970s hell of communist rule, and so it's a fairly simple gag to go with.
Even so, as I then make the case, it is certainly the case that when you hold esports events in countries where things aren't as developed as the most famous Western countries, that there will be a bigger grass roots ground-swelling of support, as people don't get many chances to attend a big esports event and they want to show their support for it making its way to their country. That's not a negative factor, and I certainly don't consider it as one, but it does play into an aspect of how those events are marketed that I find distasteful.
Esports has always been marred by the business-men behind it and those in positions of authority in the big organisations try go sell the idea that esports is bigger than it is. From the early days people have repeated again and again a misleading set of statistics about the number of overall gamers in the world and the amount of money earned by the entire gaming industry, as if those represented esports and it were not a minuscule niche fraction of it, contrasted against the total money brought in by the Hollywood movie industry.
As a result, the public, even within esports, has often been sold an exaggerated version of how big esports currently is. That the public is largely made up of self-identified nerds, who have felt at times as if they are outsiders due to their interest in esports, this story-line most pleasingly plays into their fantasy that esports will become as big as "real" sports and thus they won't have to feel insecure about their involvement and their friends and family will understand their obsession.
The reason I bring this up is that I feel as if this exact process of exaggeration and disingenuous presentation was being undertaken by those hosting the IEM in Katowice. To me, the fact you can get a large stadium and fill it with people is obviously a huge positive and requires no hype or artificial presentation to impress the public. That wasn't enough though, the event was presented as if this showed that esports had become close to mainstream, since it was filling a large stadium and would be attended by many fans.
My point regarding the fact the event would of course be packed, bears some consideration in the context of the country and circumstances. First of all, if you follow any major sport then you'll know that if the sport is truly world-wide, then they'll want their biggest events held in very large cities in the world and at very famous stadiums. Likewise, I've no doubt if ESL could have hired the O2 arena in the UK or Madison Square Garden in the USA, that they would have. In reality, that wasn't a reasonable expectation for ESL or esports. Those stadiums cost vast sums up money, as a result charge a lot of money for tickets and one needs to be certain that they will fill the crowd to make up for the massive running costs.
As I reference later with the WCG, there have been events held in the West, as recently as a few years ago, where the capacity was nowhere near reached. I recently worked at the Gfinity G3 event in London and I can tell you that the CS:GO section of the crowd was not packed. It had some fans attending and they were vocal, but there was still a long way to go until it would be standing room only, scalpers selling tickets and fans rushing to buy them levels of interest. Meanwhile, I've seen that it has been the events in countries like China, Ukraine and Poland which had been able to easily stack the entire room with crowd, some event standing or milling around outside.
That is in part due to the lack of international level esports events, the economical issues of tickets often being free or quite cheap in these countries, as opposed to some Western events, and people being more interesting and passionate about esports, due to not being as distracted by some of the luxury and general apathy Westerners have grown accustomed to.
Let's be absolutely real here: costs were a huge part of holding that IEM at the Spodek in Katowice, Poland, over a huge stadium such as those I referenced in other countries. This wasn't even the biggest stadium in all of Poland itself, perhaps in Warsaw, the capital. I even suspect, that the costs were significantly lower precisely because the event was held in Poland not in the capital. From my experience with following esports for years, I've seen cases where small cities in other countries were willing to either have the local government cooperate/sponsor the event and give stadium usage entirely for free or for vastly reduced rates, on the understanding it would bring exposure and tourism to their city.
The infamous existential hole
My statement that Polish people need to fill the existential hole within themselves with esports is likewise a joke and a serious statement, to some degree. Firstly, I deliver it with a smile on my face and it is meant as an obvious joke to fuck with Chanman, who is hyping the event to be something epic. Secondly, if we want to address the statement literally, I would say that everyone in the world has an existential hole in their life. Some fill it with mere simple distractions (leisure activities, hobbies, work) and some more drastic solutions (sex, drugs, religion, politics).
Most of the unhappiness in the world stems from people's inability to acknowledge this part of themselves and find a satisfactory and non-destructive way to deal with it. In my case, esports and philosophy have been methods of dealing with this problem of being a human being, alive in the 21st century and outside of the natural environment human beings apparently originated from.
Such context was not given to that statement at the time, because I assumed it would be readily seen as a joke. However, in line with the impossible-to-overcome-hatred-perspective-process I outlined earlier on, I can see that often those who wish to be offended would simply decide that this was a literal statement to be taken as some kind of immortal pronouncement on the Polish people, specifically and solely, by a foreigner. It's impossible, for such people, that there could be any kind of humour involved or more general philosophical context.
The Olympics in Africa
Similarly, I was both joking and serious, to differing degrees, in my comment on the Olympics being held in Africa. Firstly, I don't know if the Olympics ever has been held in Africa, but my point was that when these events are held, it is often the case that the local governments rush to spend massive amounts of money developing the Olympic areas of their cities to look as modern and developed as any Western country. This is both to sell the notion of their country as a great place to visit and to accommodate Westerners who will be attending and representing a lot of the big business interests.
Those who are involved in local politics in these countries will be aware that these campaigns are often quite irresponsible in spending massive amounts of money on such construction work, often at the expense of matters where the money could have been better used for local people, who will have to live there for years beyond the Olympics. As a result, I find that approach quite distasteful both on the level of trying to pretend a country is much better off than it is and essentially neglecting the local people of help which could be provided if the funds used for such construction were more responsibly allocated.
It should go without saying, I didn't deliver my perspective with such eloquence on the show as a) I am Thorin and I have quite a blunt way of speaking and b) it was a talk show in which we are discussing topics impromptu of nothing and free-wheeling our opinions, not a 50 page dissertation on my thoughts regarding the holding of major events in underdeveloped countries, relative to the West.
One of the worst countries in Europe
My statement that Poland is one of the worst countries in Europe is somewhat exaggerated, as I acknowledge that Ukraine and other Eastern European countries are worse, as far as I am aware. With that said, when I think of European countries, I can think of a lot before I get to where I would start ranking Poland, in terms of my favourites and the ones I think are the best. At this point, I should unpack some of my experiences with Poland and Polish people, to provide context for my statements.
Having been friends with and worked with Polish people in esports for almost a decade and a half, as well as having Polish people in my life from many years prior to that, I have been told many stories which have shaped my opinions on the country and its people. The general trend I have observed of Polish people has been that they are very blunt and aggressive with how they express themselves, something I can relate to and which shares some commonalities with the esports side of the United Kingdom, my own country.
With that said, the UK still has the restraints of a decaying system of politeness, paired with the modern environment of political correctness, which keeps certain elements in check, at least outside of game servers and internet forums. I have known Polish friends of mine in esports to make statements like "Oh, yes, he does all the black work in my team", referring to the CS player who plays the support role and must do the least enjoyable tasks and take up the worst positions. When I've explained to these individuals that they would be advised not to make such statements to Westerners and outlined the context in which their comments will be viewed, primarily as racist, they are often a little surprised and think the West is a little quaint in how restrictive its speech is.
Similarly, it is very much advisable to never bring up the topics of world war 2, muslims, jews or gypsies with Polish people. Excluding those who have spent extended periods of time outside of Eastern Europe, I have found that the opinions expressed by many of my Polish friends and acquaintances have been what we in the West would describe as at the very least "out-dated", if not politically incorrect and offensive. Personally, I try to see the context of a person's upbringing and personal experiences when I take on board what they are saying, so it has never been a large concern for me to hear such, to me, radical opinions, but I have always tried to make it clear to them that other Westerners will not view such opinions through the same prism.
The story about the roads in Poland was hyperbole in as much as I gave the impression all of the roads had holes in them. Rather, in line with the initial story, there are some roads, particularly those connecting certain cities and towns, which are not well-maintained, thus my friend having to take several more hours to arrive at the event, despite living a distance which would have taken much less time to travel in a country like Sweden or Germany.
Contrasted against Ukraine
Part of the reason I referenced Ukraine as being much worse, arrives at some of the problems I've experienced directly and indirectly in Eastern European countries. Ukraine is by far the worst place I have ever travelled to. Events were always held in January, so it was extremely cold, and I have always found it unpleasant to have to be particularly on your guard when travelling around even Kiev, the capital city. The three times I have visited Ukraine, I have found some startling differences from the developed Western countries.
Firstly, taxis will literally attempt to repeatedly steal money from the customer. The taxi driver will in nearly all cases, unless someone speaks Russian and can give off the impression of being a local, charge at least double his normal fare. If one disputes the fare, due to knowing the amount it should be, the taxi driver will either lie and claim that the amount one is suggesting is less than even petrol costs, which is absolutely inaccurate, or sometimes even refuse to take the passenger, knowing he can wait for someone else who can be fooled.
When one does take a taxi, if it is from a hotel then it might be a nice new car, and thus you will almost certainly have to pay 2 or 3 times the normal amount, but when travelling back to the hotel, you have to get a taxi simply off the street. Those taxis have literally always been cars made in the 1970s or 1980s, during my trips, and sometimes with no seatbelts at all in the back. When getting into the car, one is sometimes told not to fasten one's seatbelt, which a Russian friend later told me was a strange superstition that persisted in some countries that wearing a seatbelt showed you didn't trust the driver's skills and that it was better to be thrown free from the car, in case of an accident, than be restrained and essentially trapped inside the vehicle.
Given all of these circumstances and the lengths the drivers go to to get more money, it is a worrying experience to travel in one of those cheap taxis, as I was at all times aware that I have in my wallet more money than the driver earns in an entire month as his salary, as the average salary for a man in some of those countries can be as low as $200.
Now we get to an even more disturbing aspect of my trips to Ukraine: police corruption. Time and time again, Western players have reported stories of going to Ukraine, going out to clubs and bars after the event to celebrate, and being stopped by police on the street, with the demand that the Westerner either pay them a specific sum of money, often a few hundred Euros, else be either beaten up or throw into a cell for a few hours. These are no idle threats, some players have indignantly refused and as a result had quite terrible experiences as a result.
These are not isolated freak occurrences. When I asked Ukrainian and Russian friends about these circumstances, they told me that it was to be expected and that it is known to happen to Westerners. I even had a Polish player tell me that he had driven to the event and that on the way home the Police had stopped his car and demanded some kind of bribe else the same would happen to him. In most cases, these Eastern European players related their experiences with a blank expression, as if this was nothing unusual, and simply suggested that one pay the amount asked for if such circumstances arose.
In three trip to Ukraine, I have heard of more then four such incidents of players being harassed and abused by the police in similar scenarios. I was also told of a circumstance where a Western player was drinking at a bar and thought he had made friends with some locals. The locals asked if he wanted to go and smoke weed and the naive player said he would. An older member of his team informed him that this was a mistake and he should stay with the crowd, at which point the locals immediately attacked both of them up, tookboth of their wallets and left.
Now then, clearly, and as I openly suggested, there is a difference between Ukraine and Poland, in this respect. Even so, when I was actually in Katowice for the IEM event, I was surprised to actually hear a similar story about a pro player attending the event. Two players from a team were stopped on the streets by cops, who deduced they were foreigners and then attempted to extract a fee, threatening them if they did not pay up. In this case, they refused and somehow got out of the situation without any trouble, this perhaps simply being a bluff from the police.
That situation is obviously much better than those I've described in Ukraine, but even so, dear reader, I would ask you to ponder such situations occurring in the USA, Germany or the UK. If something along those lines were to happen, it would be a huge outrage and there would be strong disciplinary action taken against the police in question. Instead, most of you reading this, even those who were around and following esports at the time, have never heard such stories or were even aware such police corruption existed in those countries.
Perhaps there is there corruption in Western police forces, I've no doubt there must be, but it is significantly less prevalent and systemically a problem, in these kinds of particular circumstances. Certainly, no Westerner I know of would describe such situations and suggest one goes along with the corruption rather than report it and take action. This is just one of the reasons I take serious umbrage with the equivalence drawn between Poland and countries like Germany and the United Kingdom, as if they were all equally developed and culturally similar. A clear distinction must be drawn on such matters, in line with the reality of the situation.
Polish emigration
My statement about the Schengen Agreement is hardly a controversial one, on the surface. I don't even know how Poland pertains to that agreement, but it was my assumption that its implementation was a component of how it was that so many Polish people moved freely out of their country and into more developed countries. In particular, it has been heavily publicised, over the last ten years, just how many Polish people have moved to the UK to find work.
One famous story in the British media was of a small town which had even, apparently, changed its signs to include Polish names and directions onto them along with the English language equivalents. Likewise, it is well known that simple jobs like potato picking is done by many Polish immigrants to the country. The problem with addressing this topic, is that it actually brings up a small but well known problem of xenophobia within the British people.
Immigrants in general are often blamed for the problems in the economy, by claiming they "take jobs" and are here seeking to "sponge up benefits" from the tax-paying citizens. Such issues often become vehicles for people to scape-goat immigrants, including Poles, as a way of venting their own problems with finding work they are willing to do or having enough money to live the kind of lifestyle they feel entitled to.
What's sad about such a situation, is that I have frequently in my life defended the right of immigrants, including specifically Polish people, to move to the UK and take up such positions. If someone from Poland is willing to move to the UK, leaving behind friends and family, to do what I consider quite a bad job, in terms of money earned and effort exerted, then I have plenty of sympathy for their plight and not much for the British guy who doesn't even want that job, but is blaming his own problems on the Polish guy.
I even suggested as much by drawing a parallel between the exodus of such Poles to my country to the situation of Koreans leaving Korea to compete in StarCraft2 tournament. The person I made this case (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fPUuexkjOU#t=44m41s) to was Carmac, a native Pole himself and someone who has expressed views in favour of region-locking, to some degree. Likewise, I have always been strongly against region-locking in esports, for similar reasons. I don't even deny that it's possible immigration may cause problems for natives, I simply think those are symptoms of a bad system in general, so blocking the immigration is just a light bandage wrapped onto a gaping flesh wound which has gone septic and will one day kill the patient. I don't see why the immigrant should take the vitriol of the public backlash when the system itself is flawed and needs to be rethought.
Let's be real, though: why do those Polish people move to the UK and take up demeaning jobs like potato-picking? Some of these individuals are not the calibre of person you'd expect to find doing such a job, some may even have degrees from university and previously had have more respectable jobs in their home country. They are willing to make such a trip because the money earned even from such relatively low level jobs in other countries may be worth more than a better job in Poland or there may simply not be enough work in Poland to support them with regular employment.
It may seem abstract to the initial point, but pretending that Poland is equal in terms of how esports is treated there and pretending it is equal in terms of its economical situation compared to other developed European countries seems, to me, at best disingenuous and at worst out-right lying. We must be honest about the problems countries face if serious change is ever to be effected. It's certainly not the fault of the average Polish person that his or her country is still suffering the effects of past problems but it's also not a respectable position for them to blame all of their problems on others and especially not on other countries. That's simply another variant of the behaviour I described from the native British people.
Racism in Poland
I've already outlined some of the context of culturally accepted racism I've witnessed from native Polish people, in this case my friends both inside and outside of esports. They certainly weren't what I would describe as racist, since they weren't actively discriminating against anyone or doing anything negative to another person's life due to race, but they were holding what would be considered politically incorrect ideas. They held those ideas largely just due to their own ignorance, perhaps having had such notions impressed upon them by the people around them or simply old cultural hang-ups which haven't been worked out of the Polish psyche yet.
With all of that in mind, I felt like when making a distinction between more developed Western countries and Poland, it was key to bring up the topic of racism. Some of these examples I've outlined here would have been much better and less debatable than the one I chose, but at the time I simply went with what came to mind. Around the time of the European football championship, which was held in Ukraine and Poland, there was a considerable emphasis in the British media, during the build-up, on the problems with racism in those countries. There were videos shown of far-right groups attending football games and performing Nazi salutes, holding up offensive signs and flags and chanting in unison quite horrible things.
I'm no expert in such matters, in fact I often joke that all I know about is imaginary things (fiction, literature in general, philosophy) and esports. I don't follow politics and my understanding of that field only tends to be the areas which overlap into esports and thus can maintain my interest. After this scandal erupted, I noticed people often referenced this aspect of the football racism as being incorrect, so I did some research into the matter. My findings were two-fold: the matter does seem to have been exaggerated as pertains to the involvement of Polish football fans, as opposed to Ukrainians, and yet it is still a factor worth mentioning.
The entire crowd at Polish football fans certainly does not chant racist chants and throw banana peels at black players. That was hyperbole even within the moment I was explaining it and I was over-egging the pudding in stating as much. It also does appear to be the case that this kind of behaviour is going on more at smaller football club games within Ukraine than in Poland. Still, there is an element of it in Polish football and I can see how my experiences with inappropriate behaviour from my Polish friends had led me to put too much stock into the aforementioned media hype I had read.
With that said, again I will stress that I will not stand for a false equivalence being drawn between the football culture in England and Germany. There is and always has been a problem with racism in these countries, but it has also regularly been publicised and is very widely frowned upon by all but the parties involved. I saw many suggesting that racism is both equally bad in English football and then the same people attempting to suggest it is even worse or that everyone is racist in English football. I've never had sympathy for the logic of someone who claims something is wrong and then applies the same approach to the person who has offended them, but more about that later.
Equally racist as other European countries
Destiny explicitly countered one of my arguments of racism with "let's be fair, fucking all of Europe is like straight up racist to like Muslim people and shit". I can't write an entire essay on German xenophobia towards Muslims, but yes there is an element of it and no it is not even close to as bad as I have personally experienced and had relayed to me from countries in Eastern Europe, Poland being one of them. It is not at all cool or acceptable to express such opinions amongst a group of German people and I resent the notion that the countries are equivalent in this respect, simply because some Polish people or some people who have never been to Germany and/or Poland wish to live in a fantasy utopia where all of these countries are equally as good or equally as problem-filled.
Destiny's parallel between inherent racism in Poland and the French outlawing face covering by Muslim women (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ban_on_face_covering) again seems like a disproportionate and unfair comparison, based on what I've read and experienced. I don't consider that the racism as systemic racism and casual discrimination, even merely by opinion, of a number of types of people in Eastern European countries.
I am not an expert on Poland, this much is certainly true, but I would be willing to wager I know a lot more about the people and culture of Poland that Destiny does about the equivalents in the UK, France or Germany.
11:00-12:56
This is the section in which I made a lot of the points about stadiums being filled in other countries and the context of why it being in Poland would make it a more popular event. I've outlined much of my reasoning in the previous section and it's difficult to separate a lot of the topics up.
The medium my comments were expressed in
As someone whose job involves dealing with language on a daily basis, I'm interested in the mechanisms behind language and thought, as well as their impact on how our minds organise information into patterns. The media theorist Marshall McLuhan did some great work in the 20th century on breaking down how different mediums, such as print or television or radio, affect how we perceive and process the information transmitted via them. Without getting too abstract, a key concept I took from his work was that of "hot" and "cold" mediums.
A cold medium like print has no time component to it, the reader controls the pace at which he takes the information in and can easily go back and double-check a section or stop and reflect upon what he has read and examine it more closely. A hot medium like a television show or radio broadcast, comes at the viewer at a specific frame-rate and speed, with no control, by default, over how it is taken in. If the concepts are too heady or said too quickly, they might go entirely over the audience's head and they don't have much time to contemplate what is being discussed or double-check they understand or even heard correctly what was discussed.
I bring this topic up, because I think this entire affair shows a lack of appreciation for the medium via which we consume media. My statements were taken without the context of any of the statements of the other participants in the conversation, note it was a conversation and not a pre-arranged speech in which I was reading statements I had carefully crafted to achieve a specific effect. The context of the show is that we discuss topics, often coming up with stuff off the top of our heads and with no time for research or further exploration, beyond our opinions crashing together. What's more, it becomes quite a dull show if we stop and say "I can't comment on that, I am not an expert" on all aspects we are not incredibly well versed in, the audience wants to know our opinions, regardless of how ill-researched or outright ignorant they may or may not be.
None of the above suggests I was forced to make the statements I made, it is simply the circumstances and context within which they exist. To endlessly repeat my comments as text or go back and listen to them over and over, breaking down specific inflection in my voice or drawing conclusions on words I did or didn't say, is to literally refuse to acknowledge there is any difference in the mental circumstances surrounding how we make statements. A large reason I have worked primarily in text during my career, is there is much more control and freedom to be found for expression there, where length and context are at the mercy of the author. Live shows are a far different animal and there is nowhere near that level of control, nor should there be expected to be.
When I suggested Destiny provoked my statements, I do not meant he literally forced me to say things which got me into trouble later. Instead, his style of arguing helped contribute to the circumstances in which I made a number of increasingly strong and hyperbolically expressed points, all within a moment to offer context or clarify errors in statement. I don't know if I've ever gotten off five sentences on during a discussion Destiny is involved is, as he will immediately jump on a statement he disagrees with as it is being uttered, without even a chance to finish it or add in a caveat or clarifying point. One can either ignore him, stop speaking or attempt to follow the argument to where he takes it. It's my mistake that I've often chosen the latter.
Referring to the issue of mediums, it's also not fair to pretend as if I made my statements during a public address to the world, including Polish people, of my thoughts on Poland as a country. They were made on a talk show which typically got a couple of thousand live viewers and for which a number of the VODs have never reached even 10,000 views on youtube. The target audience are primarily Western SC2 fans and fans of esports, many hardcore enthusiasts.
The vast majority of the people who got upset at my comments were not in the original audience and would never have even heard the comments had they not been shown them explicitly and for the express purpose of raising their ire. Many of the Polish people employed by ESL, who decided I could not be allowed to work for IEM at the event, certainly did not know about the show until someone came to them and showed them, essentially trying to see if they were offended and show them something negative which would upset them.
The comments can stand on their own merits, but it's quite dishonest to pretend as if there is no context in terms of how people were presented with this information and how they consumed it, via medium and supplementary information given.
How my comments were perceived
In terms of how my comments were perceived, I also don't appreciate the suggestion that others can define my intentions or motivations behind specific statements, particularly in terms of when or how I am joking and when I am making a serious statement. I'm aware that people don't have all the context of the situation, but a lot of people seem to have been wilfully ignorant in acquiring even the context that was available, something the words being taken out of context and placed into text hardly helped, and others have gone out of their way to draw as negative conclusions and assign negative connotations as they possibly can.
I can understand why I am a prime candidate for a vitriolic response from the public. I've always put forwards the cultural context that native Poles are used to either experiencing or hearing stories about British biases against people who have emigrated there for work. This in itself is overblown by foreign media, I get the sense, as I have almost never witnessed it publicly, it tends to amount to a bit of grumbling and the odd stupid comment by someone with friends. Even so, I'm aware it will easily be assumed, if someone sees my comments, that I am in the camp of British people who are expressing xenophobic ideas for such notions. The fact I have been distinctly opposed to such behaviour and sentiments during my life-time is not something someone who doesn't could be expected to know.
There is also the factor that Polish people themselves are aware their country has severe problems, or at least did in the still recent past. For some of them, they express their feelings much like my native countrymen do: a slight grumble and kind of apathetic complaint that the government is fucked up, full of idiots and corrupt. For others, they express their anger and discontent by scape-goating others, much like the British person blaming everything on the immigrant Pole. Suddenly everything is the fault of other countries, world war 2, Poland's own immigrants or, in this case, anyone speaking in a manner perceived negatively of Poland.
Scape-goating me and deciding to express as much hatred as one can muster in a moment, on the basis of my comments, might have a cathartic effect on the offended Polish person, but it ultimately doesn't actually make a lot of these problems my fault, non-existent or something which should be ignored and not spoken about.
If a country is not racist and has no problems with xenophobic behaviour of its own, then a good way to treat anyone suggesting it does would be to behave in a manner which shows how untrue such suggestions are. There are a couple of great quotes from classical philosophers that I remember which fit this point:
"When men speak ill of thee, live so as nobody may believe them."
-Plato
"The best revenge is not to be like your enemy"
-Marcus Aurelius
I'm sure there were some Polish people that simply ignored my comments, wrote them off as ignorance or decided not to engage them. The problem is that the overwhelming response I received was massively negative. I received thousands of personal messages, via facebook, twitter and reddit private message, telling me to kill myself, that I would be raped, that I deserve to die, that I should never be employed in esports again and that they wished to find me at the event, if I attended. An overwhelming majority of these messages came from people with Polish names, including a surprisingly large minority of female names.
I have said similar things, though not at the same kind of length, in the past about the USA, France and other countries, yet I've never received that kind of reaction. Are we to pretend that there are some special extenuating circumstances surrounding such a reaction which again makes Poland equivalent, at least culturally and in terms of expression of displeasure to foreigners, to the aforementioned countries?
I actually found the response shocking, not because there was backlash, but at the sheer level of hatred and vitriol involved. From knowing Polish people for so many years, I had known them to be at times aggressive but I had never actually experienced that kind of behaviour. What's incredible, is that this experience actually gave me a lower opinion of Polish people than I had had prior to the scandal. The messages continued for long after the initial incident too, some persistently sending me "threats". It got so that if I even saw a Polish name then I assumed, quite accurately, that it would be an intensely negative communication on their behalf.
Now, what's interesting about this situation, is that it actually did not affect my opinion of Polish people, after much reflection. None of the Polish people I know in esports have ever even brought this topic up with me, unless I have asked them about it and none of them have behaved to me in any manner differently than they did before. Some tried to be empathetic and say they agreed with some of my points about their country but that one could not state such things if they are a foreigner, which is certainly a believable sentiment.
All in all, I have to take into consideration the treatment I have experienced as I go forwards, but I, ultimately, don't hold any special grudge against Polish people in general. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that the messages sent to me were a mixture of plain hatred, anger at bringing up real problems in their country, poorly expressed frustration at a foreigner talking about bad things in their country and even some cathartic spewing of hatred to relieve the stress of being in a bad set of circumstances.
I also don't cite such messages as real "death threats". I think it's a bit melodramatic when celebrities claim that a tweet saying "I WILL KILL YOU" is a death threat, as if it is equal to someone sending a letter to your actual address, with a photograph of you picking up your mail and an outline of how they will murder you. As I've stressed a number of times in this piece, it's important to set the context and proportion of circumstances, as they should not be conflated or made equal when they are not.
I will probably never go to Poland again in my life, hardly a surprise in light of my initial position anyway, simply because of this treatment, but I strive not to be biased against Polish people I have never met before, on the basis of the negative treatment I've experienced from others who simply happened to be born on the same part of the Earth's crust.
My history with Poland
I have been close friends with a number of Polish people for more than a decade and, as previously mentioned, shared sympathies with some of their problems domestically and abroad. Polish is actually the language I know the most words in, outside of English, as my school education in French and Spanish has been almost entirely squandered and left to gather dust. To speak to Polish friends, I have probably learned about 40 or so key words and a number of set phrases and traditional proverbs.
I find some aspects of Eastern Europe interesting, though I have no desire to visit those countries. I especially find them interesting in the context of esports, as Poles have had a significant impact on the landscapes of Quake, CS and StarCraft, throughout the years.
I can see how some of my statements regarding Poland were either factually inaccurate, to some degree, or taken in an unduly offensive manner, but that was not the motivation between why they were said in the first place. I entirely understand if someone Polish, or of any background, does not like my personality, but I have never attempted to intentionally be racist, xenophobic or hateful of any race or country of people.
I lost a four figure sum of money from not being able to provide analysis for the IEM and my hours of research went to waste, but what is done is done. Mistakes were made and everyone must decide for himself how to think back on that time.
"Cudze wady rychlej niż swoje obaczamy"
I think this lengthy explanation addresses everything that needs to be said about my appearance on that Unfiltered episode. I will address my dispute with Reginald and the scandal which followed that in my next facebook post.Thorin’s Removal from EMS One
In March 2014, esports analyst Duncan “Thorin” Shields was removed from the EMS One Katowice, a major Counter-Strike: Global Offensive event, due to controversial comments he made about Poland during a pre-tournament podcast. Thorin, known for his provocative and candid style, made remarks that were perceived as offensive and derogatory towards the country, its people, and its status in the EU. His comments included suggestions that Poland was among the worst countries in Europe, with issues such as rampant racism at sports events, and joked about the socio-economic struggles in the country. This was taken poorly, especially since the tournament was being hosted in Poland.
The backlash was swift. Fans and viewers, particularly those from Poland, expressed outrage, deeming the remarks insensitive and xenophobic. The decision to remove Thorin from the event was made by the ESL (Electronic Sports League), the organizers of EMS One, who stated they do not tolerate such discriminatory comments. The removal highlighted a growing expectation for professionalism and respect from esports personalities, especially when representing major events on an international stage
Online reactions were mixed. Some community members felt that Thorin’s comments, while harsh, were part of his usual no-filter style, and argued that they did not cross the line into racism but rather reflected blunt criticism. Others believed his comments were out of place and showed a lack of respect for the host country, making his removal justified. The situation stirred debates on social media and forums, with heated discussions about the line between free speech and professional conduct in esports commentary
Thorin himself responded to the controversy by defending his comments as attempts at humor, albeit poorly received, and expressed disappointment at being removed without a proper dialogue. His removal from the casting team marked a notable moment in esports history, setting a precedent for how organizations handle controversial statements by on-air talent
Overall, the incident had a polarizing effect, with some fans calling for stricter conduct policies, while others worried it might stifle the outspoken and colorful personalities that contribute to esports’ unique appeal. It highlighted the evolving expectations for esports analysts and commentators as the industry became more mainstream and professionalized.
So, what does it all mean?
This is a fascinating snapshot of a community grappling with a controversial incident! Let’s dive into a reddit discussion about the topic.
1. Thorin’s Actions:
- Overwhelmingly Negative Perception: Most users condemn Thorin’s comments about Poland, calling them ignorant, offensive, and unprofessional.
- Debate on Intent: While some argue he was joking or expressing an opinion, many feel his words were harmful regardless of intent, especially given his position as an esports personality.
- Criticism of Character: Thorin is repeatedly described as arrogant, condescending, a “douchebag,” and someone who enjoys stirring up controversy. This suggests a pre-existing negative perception of him within the community.
2. ESL’s Response:
- Praise for Transparency and Swift Action: Users commend Redeye and ESL for their clear explanation and immediate removal of Thorin. This is seen as a sign of professionalism and a commitment to inclusivity in esports.
- Setting a Precedent: The incident is viewed as a significant step towards greater accountability in the esports community, demonstrating that offensive behavior will have consequences.
3. Community Dynamics:
- Polarized Opinions: While the majority criticize Thorin, a vocal minority defend him, citing free speech, the context of the “Unfiltered” podcast, and the belief that people are overreacting.
- National Pride: Some Polish users express hurt and frustration at Thorin’s stereotypes, while others defend Poland’s progress and achievements. This highlights the sensitivity of national identity and the impact of generalizations.
- Humor and Irony: Despite the seriousness of the topic, there are attempts at humor, particularly puns related to Thorin’s name and situation. This might reflect a coping mechanism or a way to diffuse tension.
4. Broader Themes:
- Professionalism in Esports: The incident sparks discussion about the need for greater professionalism in the growing esports industry, including appropriate language and behavior from public figures.
- Free Speech vs. Responsibility: The comments reveal a tension between the right to express opinions and the responsibility that comes with a public platform.
- Sensitivity and Offense: The varied reactions highlight the subjective nature of offense and the importance of considering the impact of words on others.
5. Interesting Observations:
- “Unfiltered” Irony: The fact that Thorin was fired from an event for comments made on a show called “Unfiltered” is pointed out as ironic by several users.
- Desire for Knowledgeable Casters: Despite the controversy, some users express a desire for knowledgeable and insightful commentators like Thorin, suggesting a potential conflict between appreciating his expertise and condemning his behavior.
- Meta-discussion: There’s some discussion about the nature of online communication, the impact of negativity, and the role of moderators in shaping online communities.
Overall, this incident appears to be a pivotal moment for the Global Offensive community, prompting reflection on issues of professionalism, responsibility, and inclusivity in the esports world.
It’s a reminder that words have power, and that public figures, even in the gaming world, have a responsibility to use their platforms wisely.
Racial Slurs Are Thorin’s Personality: Analyzing the Controversial Esports Commentator’s Pattern of Offensive Behavior
Thorin’s controversial behavior has spanned years, involving incendiary comments and support for divisive figures, often pushing the boundaries of acceptable discourse in esports. Here is some controversial stuff and more reasons why Thorin should not be welcomed back to Counter Strike scene in any way.
Defense of Alex Jones
Thorin made headlines with a full-throated defense of Alex Jones, a conspiracy theorist infamous for promoting the false narrative that the 2012 Sandy Hook mass shooting was staged. The incident, where 20 young children were tragically killed, has been a sensitive topic in the U.S. Jones’ claims have been widely condemned, especially by the families of the victims who have faced harassment as a result. Thorin’s support for Jones indicated his alignment with fringe, conspiratorial rhetoric, shocking many in the community.
High-Profile Role in Esports
Despite his controversial comments, Thorin continued to receive prominent roles, such as being hired as a commentator for ESL New York. This raised questions about the industry’s willingness to overlook his problematic behavior. As a respected figure and a past winner of the Esports Industry Awards, Thorin’s endorsement by major organizations seemed to conflict with the community’s growing push for inclusivity and professionalism.
Repeated Racist Remarks
Thorin’s history of making racially insensitive comments is well-documented. On one occasion, he affirmed a derogatory stereotype by comparing black people to monkeys. He later apologized, stating that his joke went too far, yet he avoided acknowledging the racial connotations of his statement, framing it as a misunderstanding of humor. His comments have often targeted specific groups, including Brazilian players from Luminosity Gaming, where he used a known racial slur (“monkey”) that drew immediate backlash.
Pattern of Edgelord Commentary
Thorin’s behavior follows a consistent pattern: he makes provocative, often offensive comments and then retreats just enough to maintain plausible deniability. This tactic involves distancing himself from the full implications of his remarks while refusing to acknowledge the underlying racism or insensitivity, instead blaming it on misinterpretation or humor.
Derogatory Comments on Reginald
In a podcast from 2014, Thorin referred to Andy “Reginald” Dinh, an American player of Vietnamese descent, as “Caesar,” the ape from Planet of the Apes.
The comment was seen as a racial slur, as the movie character was used as a derogatory comparison. This incident was part of a broader conflict between Thorin and Reginald, but it underscored Thorin’s use of racialized language, often masked as part of personal feuds.
Thorin’s controversial statements and his unapologetic style have sparked extensive debate within the esports community. While some appreciate his unfiltered commentary, others see it as a dangerous form of rhetoric that promotes hate and division. The fact that mainstream esports organizations continue to engage him as a commentator highlights a broader issue of accountability in the industry. His pattern of offensive remarks, combined with his refusal to fully address their impact, remains a point of contention, pushing the community to question the boundaries of acceptable behavior in esports.
Thorin’s controversial comments about Andy “Reginald” Dinh also included a bizarre attempt at justification. After referring to Dinh as “Caesar” from Planet of the Apes, he denied any racial intent, despite the well-known racist meme comparing Dinh to a monkey circulating within the League of Legends community at the time. Thorin later elaborated in a lengthy essay, explaining that the comparison was purely metaphorical: if everyone on the podcast were characters from Planet of the Apes, Dinh would hypothetically fit the role of Caesar. He claimed he chose the character based on the qualities he was attributing to Reginald, not as a racial slur. This defense, like many of his explanations, failed to address the broader racial implications of his language, revealing a continued pattern of inflammatory remarks masked by a veneer of humor and intellectualism.
The incident further exemplifies how racial slurs and controversial comments seem ingrained in Thorin’s on-air personality, often dismissed as edgy humor. His rationalizations have not only sparked backlash but have also intensified scrutiny on why major esports platforms continue to endorse him despite his troubling history.
Defense of Homophobic Language, Deflection and Rhetorical Tactics
Thorin’s controversial behavior often involves defending problematic speech and minimizing the consequences for those involved, aligning himself with a broader cultural narrative of opposing “cancel culture” and criticizing progressive movements.
Thorin defended Counter-Strike player Mohamad “m0E” Assad’s use of the slur “faggot,” downplaying its modern context as a homophobic insult. He invoked the term’s historical etymology (a bundle of sticks) as a way to rationalize its use, suggesting that critics were imposing their own, contemporary meanings without considering the word’s history. This approach mirrors a common tactic used in cultural debates, where the emphasis is placed on technical definitions to deflect criticism, rather than acknowledging the harm caused by the modern usage of the term.
Thorin’s defense fits into a larger playbook seen in today’s culture wars: accusing critics of being overly sensitive “Social Justice Warriors” (SJWs) and framing any backlash as an attack on free speech. By suggesting m0E might have been referring to the original meaning of the word, Thorin created a rhetorical smokescreen that shifted the burden of proof onto the accusers. This tactic exploits ambiguity and relies on plausible deniability, making it difficult for critics to effectively counter the argument, as they cannot definitively prove intent.
Thorin frequently positions himself against what he perceives as an unjust culture of punishing individuals for offensive comments. This was evident in his response to the firing of Overwatch player Jonathan “Dreamkapzer” Sanchez, who faced allegations of engaging in an inappropriate online relationship with a minor. Thorin’s initial reaction was to lament the impact on Sanchez’s career rather than addressing the severity of the accusations, showcasing his pattern of downplaying serious issues in favor of opposing perceived overreach or “witch hunts.”
Thorin’s pattern extends beyond isolated incidents. He has been linked to controversial figures and movements, such as supporting GamerGate, a campaign associated with harassment and anti-feminist sentiment in gaming. His choice of Sargon of Akkad, an anti-feminist YouTube personality, as the first guest on his interview series highlighted his alignment with individuals known for employing similar tactics—distancing themselves from the more extreme elements of the alt-right while continuing to engage in the same culture war topics.
Fans have also pointed out Thorin’s endorsements and retweets of content from controversial figures like Joe Arpaio, a former Arizona sheriff known for his harsh treatment of immigrants, and articles from Return of Kings, an anti-feminist website. These affiliations suggest a pattern of aligning with reactionary viewpoints and provocative, anti-progressive stances. While some retweets could not be independently verified, the connections drawn by fans paint a picture of Thorin consistently engaging with ideologies that align with far-right and anti-social justice sentiments.
Thorin’s ongoing defense of offensive speech, his alignment with reactionary figures, and his use of rhetorical tactics to deflect criticism are emblematic of a larger cultural struggle in esports. His commentary often blurs the line between humor and harmful rhetoric, with his explanations offering just enough ambiguity to maintain plausible deniability. However, the backlash he faces highlights a growing call for accountability in the industry, challenging the idea that “edgy” personalities should be shielded from consequences when their words cause harm.
The Thorny Dilemma: How Racial Slurs and Insults Became Thorin’s Personal Brand
Thorin’s history in the esports industry has been littered with controversial remarks and subsequent backlash. In 2014, he faced significant repercussions for derogatory language and xenophobic comments. Initially fired from OnGamers for using the term “retarded,” he later faced termination from ESL for disparaging Poland and Africa during a live stream. Thorin’s commentary included remarks about Poland’s perceived lack of events and compared African nations hosting the Olympics to temporary visits to a “developed world,” only to revert to harsh conditions afterward. This incident highlighted his problematic pattern of public statements
Despite these incidents, the esports community has shown a mixed response. While ESL initially denounced his behavior, the organization later rehired him as a freelance commentator, signaling a pragmatic, if morally questionable, willingness to overlook past controversies for his analytical expertise. Thorin’s ongoing involvement, including a major event in New York featuring another controversial figure, Sadokist, demonstrates the industry’s complicated relationship with polarizing personalities. It suggests a prioritization of entertainment value and audience engagement over a consistent stance against discriminatory language.
In a broader cultural context, Thorin’s situation exemplifies a recurring dilemma in esports: balancing free speech and brand integrity. His defenders often cite free speech principles, while critics argue this overlooks the harm caused by his remarks. This disconnect underscores the esports industry’s struggle with accountability, reflecting wider societal debates on the boundaries of acceptable speech and the consequences for public figures in media.
Thorin’s Toxic Critique of FalleN: A Non-Player’s Perspective
Thorin’s comment about FalleN being the “most overrated CSplayer in history” sparked significant controversy, particularly from the CScommunity and top players like s1mple. FalleN, a respected figure in competitive Counter-Strike, has earned his accolades through years of elite gameplay and leadership. Thorin, however, is not a professional player and has never been on the same competitive level. His inability to personally grasp the nuances of high-level play renders his critique shallow and toxic, dismissing the complexities of top-tier Counter-Strike. As a commentator, his role should be to provide insight, not to undermine players who have proven themselves time and again.
This inflammatory comment ignored FalleN’s tactical intelligence and leadership, which have been integral to Brazil’s dominance in CSover the years. By making such a judgment, Thorin exposed a fundamental misunderstanding of what makes a player truly great—something only those who have played at the highest levels can truly assess. Instead of contributing to a positive discussion about the game, Thorin’s remarks simply spread negativity and hostility, diminishing the overall discourse in the CScommunity.
Time for Esports to Act: Ban Thorin from All Major Tournaments and Protect Young Audiences
Given Thorin’s long history of controversial remarks, including racial slurs, homophobic language, and xenophobic comments, it is increasingly clear that his presence in esports broadcasts and major tournaments poses a significant risk, especially to younger audiences. His behavior undermines the professional and inclusive environment that esports organizations, such as Valve and ESL, have worked hard to cultivate. Not only does his history reflect poorly on the esports community, but it also detracts from the positive role that events like CSMajors could play in fostering a welcoming space for fans and players alike.
Thorin is not a Counter-Strike player and does not bring any unique expertise to the talent desk that justifies overlooking his problematic behavior. Esports has already established a high standard for its professional talent, with a diverse and talented pool of analysts and commentators who can contribute meaningfully without the baggage of divisive rhetoric. Organizations and tournament organizers should take a firm stance and ban Thorin from future events, ensuring that those who participate in and consume esports content are protected from harmful, regressive ideologies.
With the growing awareness of these issues in esports, both Valve and ESL have a responsibility to prioritize the safety and well-being of their community, particularly younger viewers. It’s time for the industry to act decisively, removing individuals like Thorin who continue to undermine the values that esports strives to uphold.
Sources
- Liquipedia Thorin Profile: Detailed timeline of Thorin’s career, including notable events, firings, and esports roles.
- Dot Esports Article on Thorin: Covers various controversies, his termination from major esports organizations, and community reactions.
- Dexerto Coverage of Thorin’s Statements: Analysis of Thorin’s recurring patterns of controversial commentary and the broader industry response.
- Reddit Discussion – Thorin Removed from ESL: Community feedback and extensive debate regarding Thorin’s removal from ESL events in 2014.
- Waypoint Article on Thorin’s Racial Remarks: In-depth analysis of Thorin’s history of problematic comments, including incidents involving racial slurs and derogatory language.
- Esports History Context: Information about Thorin’s employment history and his standing as a freelancer within major esports events, despite prior controversies.